Evanism 31st October 2013, 12:17 AM Hi all,
Thought I would share my very positive experience with CMT 2050 blade and bit cleaner.
My lovely Freud premier fusion thin kerf and another 12" blade that came with the saw, were getting narky and not cutting cleanly. I've had them a while and they have done a LOT of work. Resigned myself to taking them both out to Fitches tomorrow for a sharpen, but being embarrassed at their condition thought to use the bottle of CMT that's been on the shelf for a while (can't let the cleaning lady see how messy my house is....)
Well. Wasn't I surprised. 30 or so minutes with a toothbrush and a soak or 3 and they came right up. Nice and sharp too. I could feel the sharp emerge! The edges were hiding under a very fine but hard layer of gum, or crud, or ...something.
Put the Freud back on the saw and blammo, it cut cleanly. Not perfect like a good sharpen would, but highly acceptable.
Two thumbs up. I'll make it part of my weekly maintenance from now on.
(now to work out what to do with the TS top now....gotta stop marking my timber with skids!)
Now I can get back on to the 3 cabinets I'm building :)
Trav 31st October 2013, 10:22 AM Every now and again I sneak my saw blades up and wash them in the sink with hot water and dish washing liquid. Far from high tech I know, but it seems to work ok.
I might have to check out the cmt stuff you mentioned though...
Trav
Woody1 31st October 2013, 11:01 AM Evanism
That is an excellent idea.
May I ask a silly question, where do you buy this CMT?
Thanks
Evanism 31st October 2013, 02:45 PM CMT was $16 from Carbatec. (purchased July, price may be different now)
Im really happy with it. I read of using diesel or as Trav did (soap in sink with Angry Wife) but after stumbling over a review of the CMT thought it was worth a crack.
Wanted to buy something similar at Rockler or Amazon, but the postage was a killer. Rockler sell something that has a cute sealable bath, a bronze toothbrush and the spray for a fair price, but again the postage is evil.
I think the bronze toothbrush (or whatever its made of) seems like a worthy investment too. I used my old toothbrush and it didn't have the mojo to move the really gummy stuff. The blunt back of a clicky-knife did it though, but I was careful on the Freud.
Again, it is amazing. I was using the Freud blade until late last night and it was like using a new fresh blade. That gum/resin, almost impossible to see, really was affecting the performance.
Woody1 31st October 2013, 03:08 PM Evanism
Thank you for the information:)
Cheers
fozzy767 2nd November 2013, 10:30 PM I have heard oven cleaner works. Gonna find out this weekend
Trav 2nd November 2013, 10:59 PM It'd want to be pretty burnt on to make me resort to oven cleaner. I wouldn't want to remove any coating or paint on bathe blade.
pjt 2nd November 2013, 11:25 PM I find the side clearances of the tooth are the worst for giving grief (burning) when gummed up, I give my blades a clean with(Felder Horzloser?) and an old tooth brush when this starts happening, a clean blade does make a big difference, I do recall having read somewhere that some cleaners (oven cleaners for e.g.) can have a detrimental effect on the tungsten, I don't know how true this is, it might just be a bit of spin aimed at getting us (me) to buy the "right stuff".
Pete
Arron 3rd November 2013, 06:31 PM I have heard oven cleaner works. Gonna find out this weekend
Yep, I've been cleaning blades with oven cleaner for years and it works a treat. Cheap too - $2.99 a can. Dont buy Mr Muscle, it may be the big seller for ovens but not good for blades. Other big name brands do the job.
Oven cleaner wont hurt the tungsten either, so yep, Pete, you are right about spin.
Works well on gummed-up sanding belts too. Use a pressure washer if it needs persuasion.
Cheers
Arron
Dengue 4th November 2013, 07:35 PM I have found that spraying Oomph ( Bunnings cleaning aisle) softens the hardest gunk, then just rub if off with a toothbrush and then rinse with water. It is a citrus cleaning product, harmless but powerful. Great for removing labels gummed on to timber or glass
Dovetail 2nd February 2014, 10:18 AM Using 'non-caustic' oven cleaners for saw blade cleaning is not entirely without it's problems.
I recently used such a product - Grease Monkey - with the catch-cry label 'Shock! This product actually works'. Amongst other things, the label states it's ideal for stainless steel, shiny alloys, galvanised mild steel and brass. Non-specifically, the only insight into the active ingredients is it contains a 'mild natural plant acid'. I later discovered this plant acid is citric acid but the MSDS doesn't provide a concentration.
I used it on a saw blade and with a little help from a stiff bristle brush the teeth cleaned up quite satisfactorily. Clean up is with water but after doing this I was dismayed to see snail tracks all down the saw plate where the product (and dissolved content) had run. I thought these simply represented deposition of the gums and tar from the teeth but even reapplying the cleaner and using the bristle brush would not alter them. See images.
302742302743
It seems to me that there has been a chemical reaction between the citric acid and something in the steel of the saw plate. I'm really surprised by this because citric acid is quite a mild acid and the contact time between the liquid and the saw plate was only as long as it took me to brush the teeth. Also, despite the label and although I haven't tried an experiment, the reaction between an acid and galvanised anything (I assume galvanised means zinc galvanisation) would cause a chemical reaction between the acid and the zinc producing hydrogen and a deposition of a salt of the acid on the metal. I can't imagine that there would be zinc in a saw plate, would there?
I presume these tracks are simply a visual blemish and I doubt very much that the brazing between the tungsten and the steel has been affected. Any ideas about how to get rid of them?
AlexS 2nd February 2014, 03:10 PM Arron, where's the problem with Mr. Muscle? I've used Mr. M non caustic for years with no problems, on both T/S and bandsaw blades.
Recently I was told that Napisan would do a good job. Haven't tried it yet, but will do so next time my blades need cleaning.
Bob38S 2nd February 2014, 05:28 PM CMT was $16 from Carbatec. (purchased July, price may be different now)
Rockler sell something that has a cute sealable bath, a bronze toothbrush and the spray for a fair price, but again the postage is evil.
I think the bronze toothbrush (or whatever its made of) seems like a worthy investment too. I used my old toothbrush and it didn't have the mojo to move the really gummy stuff. The blunt back of a clicky-knife did it though, but I was careful on the Freud.
..
If you want small toothbrush type bronze/brass or stainless steel bristles - visit almost any gunshop - go to the cleaning section and take your pick of flat brushes or cylinders.
Bore cleaning bristle brushes are also good for gently cleaning out the gullets of the blade.
You used to also be able to get a plastic backed brass bristle brush [quite large, was used on suede desert boots etc] - Waproo branded from the shoe repairers / Mr Minute, unfortunately I have not been able to get any of these for a while and they appear to have replaced the original with a very inferior type which is useless IMHO.
Kidbee 2nd February 2014, 09:05 PM Hi all,
Thought I would share my very positive experience with CMT 2050 blade and bit cleaner.
My lovely Freud premier fusion thin kerf and another 12" blade that came with the saw, were getting narky and not cutting cleanly. I've had them a while and they have done a LOT of work. Resigned myself to taking them both out to Fitches tomorrow for a sharpen, but being embarrassed at their condition thought to use the bottle of CMT that's been on the shelf for a while (can't let the cleaning lady see how messy my house is....)
Well. Wasn't I surprised. 30 or so minutes with a toothbrush and a soak or 3 and they came right up. Nice and sharp too. I could feel the sharp emerge! The edges were hiding under a very fine but hard layer of gum, or crud, or ...something.
Put the Freud back on the saw and blammo, it cut cleanly. Not perfect like a good sharpen would, but highly acceptable.
Two thumbs up. I'll make it part of my weekly maintenance from now on.
(now to work out what to do with the TS top now....gotta stop marking my timber with skids!)
Now I can get back on to the 3 cabinets I'm building :)
This product is now listed at $19 with Carbatec. Below is the product description:-
"Most blade and bit cleaning products work with a dissolving action, using some powerful chemicals to dissolve wood residues and adhesives. Safe and non-toxic Formula 2050 penetrates the microscopic cracks in the resin and attacks the bond between it and the carbide steel surfaces. The resin releases its grip and you simply wipe it off.
CMT2050 is completely non-toxic, non-flammable and certified biodegradable. Formula 2050 is a safe, earth-friendly product.
Do not rinse after cleaning. Formula 2050 provides protection from rust and corrosion. It keeps your table saw top rust resistant too."
The last bit is interesting about keeping the table saw top rust resistant.
Arron 3rd February 2014, 08:35 AM Arron, where's the problem with Mr. Muscle? I've used Mr. M non caustic for years with no problems, on both T/S and bandsaw blades.
Recently I was told that Napisan would do a good job. Haven't tried it yet, but will do so next time my blades need cleaning.
I didnt mean Mr Muscle was bad for the blade or caused any other problems. Sorry for the confusion. I just meant that its effectiveness was well below the brand (or brands) I normally used.
I put this down to some products being formulated to work better on warm ovens and some on cold - and Mm being one of the former. just a guess though.
Cheers
Arron
artme 3rd February 2014, 09:26 AM How do we think a blade would clean up in a dishwasher?
Pirate323i 5th February 2014, 12:21 PM Using 'non-caustic' oven cleaners for saw blade cleaning is not entirely without it's problems.
I recently used such a product - Grease Monkey - with the catch-cry label 'Shock! This product actually works'. Amongst other things, the label states it's ideal for stainless steel, shiny alloys, galvanised mild steel and brass. Non-specifically, the only insight into the active ingredients is it contains a 'mild natural plant acid'. I later discovered this plant acid is citric acid but the MSDS doesn't provide a concentration.
I used it on a saw blade and with a little help from a stiff bristle brush the teeth cleaned up quite satisfactorily. Clean up is with water but after doing this I was dismayed to see snail tracks all down the saw plate where the product (and dissolved content) had run. I thought these simply represented deposition of the gums and tar from the teeth but even reapplying the cleaner and using the bristle brush would not alter them. See images.
302742302743
It seems to me that there has been a chemical reaction between the citric acid and something in the steel of the saw plate. I'm really surprised by this because citric acid is quite a mild acid and the contact time between the liquid and the saw plate was only as long as it took me to brush the teeth. Also, despite the label and although I haven't tried an experiment, the reaction between an acid and galvanised anything (I assume galvanised means zinc galvanisation) would cause a chemical reaction between the acid and the zinc producing hydrogen and a deposition of a salt of the acid on the metal. I can't imagine that there would be zinc in a saw plate, would there?
I presume these tracks are simply a visual blemish and I doubt very much that the brazing between the tungsten and the steel has been affected. Any ideas about how to get rid of them?
without having a closer look it is hard to say, however it looks like the acid has "etched" the steel and is highlighting the grain structure of the metal. I dont think you have ANYTHING to worry about! it is purely just the surface.
to get rid of them you could polish the blade...:roll:
Dovetail 5th February 2014, 07:25 PM I did go ahead and perform an experiment using the cleaning product on galvanised steel. The image shows the effect this acid had on the galv. (on the left) but then I went ahead and placed a similar amount of another degreasing agent - one that doesn't contain citric acid - on the plate and this shows no effect and in case the citric acid really cleaned the galv. I used white spirit on another area to remove any possible hydrocarbon (grease) on the plate. This too shows no effect. See image
303022
Artme, the dishwashing product we use - Finish - is basically citric acid.
Zed 5th February 2014, 07:39 PM no name oven cleaner from franklins works quite fine. why pay more? Been using it for years with an old toothbrush.
do you honestly think a blade designed to spin at whatever rpm and cut thru timber and or aluminium will be affected by a bit of oven cleaner? even the ones with a powder covering of some sort will be unaffected. mine never are and Ive been at it for years.
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