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Thread: Bowl Scraper Question
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13th August 2023, 02:40 PM #1Intermediate Member
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Bowl Scraper Question
Hi All,
Probably a straight forward question but I thought I wouldn't just assume.
I am fairly new to bowl turning and am turning a number of blanks into sawdust trying to practice and improve my skills. Especially with my bowl gouge.
On the inside wall I am having trouble eliminating stepping from the starting and stopping with my gouge.
From my research and asking more experienced turners I am out to get a bowl scraper (possibly a negative rake??) to help with this.
I assume that a bowl scraper like the one pictured is just a round nose scraper with a different grind? and the negative rake version is the same bit of HSS with another additional grind?
So essentially buying a round nose scraper and adding the grinds would be the ways to go, or am I missing something?
Thanks in advance if you have the time to respond..
Cheers Paul
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13th August 2023 02:40 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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13th August 2023, 03:14 PM #2
Without actually watching your technique, I'll hazard a guess that you may find it easier if you add a bit of 'twist' to the gouge as you go around the curve. Not that this works for everybody.
Either way, it's practise, practise, practise.
So essentially buying a round nose scraper and adding the grinds would be the ways to go, or am I missing something?
But unless the timber you're using really needs the negative rake to get a good finish I'd stick with the plain ol' grind simply because it simplifies sharpening sessions and means more time spent at the lathe vs time at the grinder.
I also find a LH bullnosed grind better for inside bowls than a standard round-nose; as a consequence most of my round scrapers have slowly been shaped that way with subsequent resharpens.
- Andy Mc
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13th August 2023, 07:34 PM #3SENIOR MEMBER
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I would keep practising with the bowl gouge and in particular different grinds. You will find that with a bit of patience and time the finish will come. As for the scraper, I have reground many to a negative edge but in the end much prefer a more traditional grind.
The main thing to remember about scrapers is not to go to far up the wall towards the edge of the bowl unless you want a major catastrophe. Other than that they can produce a good finish.
Have a look at the YouTube videos of Richard Raffan, he is a master when it comes to the use of the scraper.
Cheers,
Peter
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13th August 2023, 08:47 PM #4
Well I go with Skew n Peter, as scraping is a great way to correct the gouge marks. But technique on the gouge is perhaps of more importance.
https://www.google.com/search?q=rich...t=gws-wiz-serp
And you cant go wrong with Richard RaffanInspiration exists, but it has to find you working. — Pablo Picasso
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13th August 2023, 10:38 PM #5GOLD MEMBER
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Also if you listed what town/ locality you live in someone local to you could possibly help.
Rgds,
Crocy.
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14th August 2023, 09:34 AM #6Senior Member
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To get straight to your question - no I don’t think the only difference between a bowl scraper and a round nose scraper is the grind. Bowl scrapers are mostly much heavier duty tools. The round scraper you get with most starter kits is probably something like 19 mm wide and 6 mm thick. A Heavy bowl scraper is wider and thicker. That improves performance when the tool is extended well over the tool rest, as it is when you are scraping the bottom of a bowl.
my bowl scraper is more like 30 mm by 8 or 9 mm thick. (That makes a lot of grinding to change the shape so you generally buy one the way you want it.)
I agree with those who say practice with your gouge. Aim to do a final light finishing cut in one clean cut. As your technique improves that will reduce the steps and grooves.
I don’t use scrapers a lot on the sides but do a lot of the bottom with scrapers.
Bruce
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15th August 2023, 07:51 AM #7Intermediate Member
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Thank you all for taking the time to share your wisdom!
I think I will spend some more time in the shed. Its makes more sense to me now that the bowl scraper is thicker hence the price difference.
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15th August 2023, 08:17 AM #8
Perhaps stepping back a little to understand why you are leaving the "steps" with your bowl gouge may be very helpful in reducing the amount of cleanup work you have to do.
Without getting into all the nitty gritty of the pro's and con's of flute shapes and grind profiles on bowl gouges one needs to understand that "bevel rubbing" is important in controlling the cut of the bowl gouge. In saying that the length of the bevel can work for you as a "guiding reference surface" and also against you as the heel of the bevel also acts as a fulcrum levering the cutting edge away from the wood.
For long slow curves on the inside of a wide shallow bowl the length of the bevel is an advantage, however as the bowl becomes narrower and deeper the length of the bevel works against you. To over come this, and to prevent "heel bruising," many experienced turners use a secondary bevel and grind the heel away reducing the length of the primary bevel. The first image (not my photo) offers some insight into the length and purpose of the bowl grind / profile, the 2nd is my bowl gouges on the LHS that I use on bowls in the 75mm to 150mm dia and up to 100mm deep range.
The primary aim when starting out is to not confuse yourself with all the variations. Stick with a standard conservative grind and a conservative bowl profile and concentrate on understanding how the "pitch, roll, and yaw" presentation of the tool and hence cutting edge affects tool performance and the quality of the cut. Sharp tools also reduce "problems" as forcing a dull cutting edge to "cut" introduces more issues.Mobyturns
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15th August 2023, 08:11 PM #9Intermediate Member
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Thanks for this Mobyturns.
My issue is area where the side transitions into the bottom of the bowl so I have assumed as you have described the bevel is getting in the way. More to the point, they way I am using the tool is probably causing the bevel to get in the way.
I think I understand your 'pitch, roll, yaw' reference but I am not 100% sure.
Very hard to describe in words but I will give it a go. Starting at the rim the gouge is at 3 o'clock and I go down the side at this angle. I start to roll the gouge to approx 2 o'clock as I go around the bend into the bottom. This is where I can be a little hit and miss. Stopping and starting, trying to pick up on an edge. Hence the stepping.
I am using a 3/8 bowl gouge and using your diagram as an indication I would say it is closest to a fingernail grind. No secondary bevel.
I still have another 5 or so blanks to go so I am happy to keep practicing, I thought that the scraper may give me some satisfaction of a better finish in the mean time.
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16th August 2023, 12:14 AM #10
An image is worth a thousand words. So if you're able, a shot of your gouge along with the angle its ground to etc. Also, where the side meets the bottom can be tricky if its not a continuous flowing curve. I like one sweeping curve top to bottom and always aim for that. But then I use hollowing tools rather than gouges for the internal work.
Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working. — Pablo Picasso
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16th August 2023, 07:53 AM #11
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